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Don_Shadow

Mushrooms and Kidney Issues

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Don_Shadow

Hey folks, I'm looking for some insight into a strange problem my good friend has been experiencing after eating mushrooms. He has years of practice under his belt. About three years ago he began to experience mild to severe pain in his lower back/kidney region. The pain would persist for about 36 hours. He slowed down his intake, fearing that the mushrooms may have been somehow damaging his kidneys. Eventually the discomfort was sufficient for him to shy away from taking mushrooms altogether. He continued to pick and cultivate psilocybe cyanescens for personal enjoyment and to gift to friends. About six months ago, he, his girlfriend and another couple decided to take mushrooms together. He decided to brave the experience once again, as it had been quite some time since he last tripped. Unfortunately this time he ended up in the hospital, as the mushrooms somehow triggered the passing of two kidney stones. He claims it was the most severe pain he has ever experienced. The trauma of tripping balls in the hospital while enduring such incredible pain has turned him off of mushrooms despite very much enjoying the experience of being high. His method of consumption was always steeped tea, mushroom flesh filtered. Cultivated psilocybe cyanescens was the species in question, though he claims that the pain first manifested with cubensis. I've suggested he try an alcohol extraction in case the reaction was caused by something other than psilocybin/psilocin/baeocystin. If anyone here has any experience with a case like this, please tell me anything that you think might help. Thanks folks, you're good shit.

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Mush Zombie

He should be alright now that the stones have passed. I saw a guy do that once. It's pretty painful 

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Don_Shadow

Thanks MZ. The guy you saw pass stones, was he on mushrooms also? I should have mentioned that the x-ray showed three more stones waiting in line, though they haven't tried to pop out yet. Seems hard to believe that mushrooms could trigger something like this, but in his case they are clearly related. They do seem to have a powerful purgative effect, though my bowels and bad habits are usually the only things I purge...

Sent from my SM-G355M using Tapatalk

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magicman

One of my close friends gets stones a lot. He said it's the male equivalent of giving birth. It's a build up of minerals like calcium I believe. He said the Dr. told him he's not supposed to eat red meat and drink alcohol, probably a couple other things he should stay away from too. He's not very good about listening to the Dr, so he does what he wants and every couple years he has to get them removed.

I'm not a Dr, but I would guess that the mushrooms were not the problem, he probably had the stones building up from other stuff, I would guess the mushrooms somehow triggered his body to try to purge them out. I'm sure once he passes the stones and takes steps to prevent more stones from building up again, he shouldn't have a problem tripping again. That's just a guess though.

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Niidaho

I would say the mushrooms didn't cause the stones .soft drinks not enuf water and genetics are probably responsible for the formation.but there may be something in them that dilated the passages in the kidneys that allowed them to pass .and that's when the pain hits. hard ! A friend of mine passed them and he lost 20 pounds in a month looked like hell .just my two cents and a educated guess but I def feel for your friend to pass a stone while tripping damn! Poor guy.

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Mush Zombie
3 hours ago, Don_Shadow said:

 

Thanks MZ. The guy you saw pass stones, was he on mushrooms also? I should have mentioned that the x-ray showed three more stones waiting in line, though they haven't tried to pop out yet. Seems hard to believe that mushrooms could trigger something like this, but in his case they are clearly related. They do seem to have a powerful purgative effect, though my bowels and bad habits are usually the only things I purge...

 

Sent from my SM-G355M using Tapatalk

No it's not from mushrooms. Have no idea why they happen

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Don_Shadow

Thanks guys. Clearly this is just one more thing to add to the list of mysteries we won't understand until more research on hallucinogens is permitted. Because of the traditions associated with hallucinogen use as an ordeal, medicine, purgative, etc. my intuition tells me that it isn't too far of a stretch to hypothesize that mushrooms could be capable of triggering a purge of kidney stones. Obviously the body-mind interrelationship is confounding enough without throwing psychedelics in there. As far as I know, stones are most commonly caused by excess intake of oxalic acid which is found in dark greens and berries.

2 hours ago, AncientVibes said:

Hmmm...so I have actually had the exact same experience...one night I had injested the penis envy strain leading to a very intense experience and I am no amatuer... The next morning I awoke with a intense kidney pain...knowing I had ingested mushrooms my first thought was my I had a contaminated mushie...I couldn't understand how this could happen as I am a very thourough person and I inspected what I put into my body and I had a very strong trip.. So I was in so much pain my father had to take me to the hospital and they immediately recognized that I was passing a kidney stone... I Did not volunteer that I had rated mushrooms for fear of being treated differently..this was a very hard decision as the pain from kidney stones is so intense I believed I was going to die and I told one of the techs in the xray room that ok I actually ate mushrooms... And this tech says "nah man you are passing a stone" ....so I just rolled with the kidney stone story as it just easier that way....now of course I tried to Google this but all results have lead to dumb explanations like eating a different mushroom than you thought ie picked the wrong one, but that wasn't the case as I knew they were penis envy.....so after stumbling upon this thread I can't help but to think that mushrooms may actually have some sort of mechanism where the kidneys are stimulated to release built up calcium....this could actually have some medical application ... I ingested the whole mushroom and it may not by the psilocybin itself but any chemical within the mushroom....just food for thought

Did some googling and found that mushrooms are high in purines which can trigger gout and kidney stones

Thanks for sharing this AncientVibes. I'm sorry you had to go through that. I'm very grateful that I've never passed a stone, let alone passing one while tripping.  How have your mushroom experiences treated you since this episode?

https://www.kidney.org/atoz/content/kidneystones_prevent

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Those Who Were
4 hours ago, AncientVibes said:

Hmmm...so I have actually had the exact same experience...one night I had injested the penis envy strain leading to a very intense experience and I am no amatuer... The next morning I awoke with a intense kidney pain...knowing I had ingested mushrooms my first thought was my I had a contaminated mushie...I couldn't understand how this could happen as I am a very thourough person and I inspected what I put into my body and I had a very strong trip.. So I was in so much pain my father had to take me to the hospital and they immediately recognized that I was passing a kidney stone... I Did not volunteer that I had rated mushrooms for fear of being treated differently..this was a very hard decision as the pain from kidney stones is so intense I believed I was going to die and I told one of the techs in the xray room that ok I actually ate mushrooms... And this tech says "nah man you are passing a stone" ....so I just rolled with the kidney stone story as it just easier that way....now of course I tried to Google this but all results have lead to dumb explanations like eating a different mushroom than you thought ie picked the wrong one, but that wasn't the case as I knew they were penis envy.....so after stumbling upon this thread I can't help but to think that mushrooms may actually have some sort of mechanism where the kidneys are stimulated to release built up calcium....this could actually have some medical application ... I ingested the whole mushroom and it may not by the psilocybin itself but any chemical within the mushroom....just food for thought

Did some googling and found that mushrooms are high in purines which can trigger gout and kidney stones

this is fucking crazy! i have had one kidney stone myself so far and my mom has had 14 after many years of doctors visits they concluded that it must be a defect in her kidneys causing calcium, mineral etc buildup in her kidneys. they assumed thats why i had mine when i was only about 16. they are definitely formed by poor water/food but during that time i was eating a lot of mushrooms. pretty much whenever anyone had any so imo it is plausible that active mushrooms or whole genus' of fungi could cause liver flushing. if i remember correctly that was the summer i ate 7 grams on fourth of july and saw some reverse rain.

ill go get an xray eventually to see if i have more in line and report back as to if continued use causes me to pass them. the path from kidney to bladder (ureter) was the worst for me, after that they gave me flowmax and i pissed it out in the bathroom after school one day without a problem. it did feel kinda weird tho

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elfstone

I would also suggest avoiding dairy, particularly cheese, as calcium can be a factor. Some folks are just more prone to them than others. Oxalate and Uric acid also can play a role, and I don't know what levels, if any, of these compounds are in Ps. cyanescens or Ps. cubensis. I do know that I will eat neither of those species due to their side-effects of muscle lassitude in the former and potentially negative trips in the latter. I have had no negative side effects with Ps. mexicana or Ps. semperviva, two species with a history of traditional usage in Oaxaca, Mexico. More research needs to be done on the chemistry and constituents of the different species.

γνῶθι σεαυτόν

gnōthi seauton

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FEARNOBEER

What a coincidence that shit would be. Worst time to be in severe pain that's for sure. I have projectile vomited a 2" diameter column that almost drown me a few times on mush, or maybe it was the weed, whiskey, and coke I was also doing at the same time. Then stood in the mirror sweating ballz as pale as a ghost debating if my heart was going to explode. Thats scary enough lol I can't imagine wondering WHERE THE FUCK that pain is coming from and WHY! Good story bro.

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Don_Shadow
1 hour ago, elfstone said:

 

I would also suggest avoiding dairy, particularly cheese, as calcium can be a factor. Some folks are just more prone to them than others. Oxalate and Uric acid also can play a role, and I don't know what levels, if any, of these compounds are in Ps. cyanescens or Ps. cubensis. I do know that I will eat neither of those species due to their side-effects of muscle lassitude in the former and potentially negative trips in the latter. I have had no negative side effects with Ps. mexicana or Ps. semperviva, two species with a history of traditional usage in Oaxaca, Mexico. More research needs to be done on the chemistry and constituents of the different species.

 

γνῶθι σεαυτόν

 

gnōthi seauton

Very useful information here elfstone, thank you. I also enjoyed your cocoa experiment thread.

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elfstone
7 hours ago, FEARNOBEER said:

What a coincidence that shit would be. Worst time to be in severe pain that's for sure. I have projectile vomited a 2" diameter column that almost drown me a few times on mush, or maybe it was the weed, whiskey, and coke I was also doing at the same time. Then stood in the mirror sweating ballz as pale as a ghost debating if my heart was going to explode. Thats scary enough lol I can't imagine wondering WHERE THE FUCK that pain is coming from and WHY! Good story bro.

 In  1976,  the mushroom fully entered my life, through the aid of Terence and Dennis McKenna's little cultivation manual, focused upon cultivation of the cattle dung inhabiting species, Psilocybe cubensis.  I was taking the mushroom while floating in a Samadhi isolation tank that I had purchased for the purpose of going into what was potentially there.  Approached int his manner, as a spiritual discipline, the spirit in the Psilocybe cubensis mushroom soon touched me deeply.  It quickly began to direct my attention toward my current state of being as well as directing the course of development with very specific intent.  The first course of action it took was to clear away unwholesome habits that I had developed, and to replace them with life affirming habits which restored the flow of health and well-being in my body and psyche.  It also facilitated the beginning of the work necessary to stabilize the heart and mind such that the more subtle, cognitive and emotional structures could be nourished and strengthened so as to foster the capacity to bring through into fuller expression the higher energies of discriminative intelligence and compassionate awareness that were necessary to do the work I was being prepared for.  It eventually led me to completing a PhD in clinical psychology.  None of this would have occurred had I not taken the decision to set aside all intoxicants.  The mushroom is not an intoxicant or "drug."   It does not like being mixed with drugs and, if eaten frequently enough, will very effectively render such decisions a thing of the past by accentuating the ill-being that intoxicants always result in.  There is always the temptation, though, to set aside the mushroom in favor of the alcohol, tobacco, weed, and other intoxicants, which place no demands upon one's soul to awaken and engage the purpose of life.  We have the power to choose what is set before us at every moment, life or death.

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FEARNOBEER

You sir are correct, and I no longer mix fungi with other mind altering products. Thanks Doc for another crazy interesting write up. 

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Don_Shadow
1 hour ago, elfstone said:

It is but another instance of the "redemptive narrative" that appears to be mostly American:

 

https://www.sesp.northwestern.edu/docs/publications/2094657112490a0f25ec2b9.pdf

 

Excellent article, thank you for sharing this.

"Human beings are moral agents, to be sure, but not every action or event makes sense in a moral framework."

"The tragic hero anguishes over the moral complexities in the world. He or she does not settle for simple truths and pat answers."

:thumbs_up:

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PsychoNanoNaut

Back to kidney stones... THIS IS THE MOST PAIN YOU WILL EVER FEEL IN YOUR LIFE. Fuck me sideways. (Why is the morphine not working!?)

I never put 2 and 2 together, when I started my psychonaut journey months ago, that when the kidney stones came. The stones were one of the most humbling experiences in my life. It broke my body and mind, but I made it through a changed man. I believe the mushies repair your DNA and make your body purge its toxins, like kidney stones. So it is good when you pass the stones, and the changes made to not get em again, is the real blessing. Also that fact that you are now a tough sonofabitch and the pains of common injuries (sprains, contusions, lacerations and burns) are laughable to you. It makes you appreciate life for sure. 

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