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GoodGary

Ok, so I need some assistance. In the past I helped a friend with his cultivation and picked up some great tips and tricks along the way. Here I am 7 years later and I am starting up my own cultivation and experiments.

So far I have crafted a glove box out of a clear, weatherproof tote that worked very well for the inoculation process. I have also designed and created an incubation chamber out of an ice chest, a reptile heating pad, and an on/off thermometer switch. It's working great and I am currently two weeks past inoculation with amazing and beautifully healthy mycelium. I've broken it up twice already (it's on grain spawn) but I think I will need to do this more often, the second time was fairly difficult to break up.

Moving on to why I am posting this in the first place.....

I have uploaded a picture here. It's a crude drawing on paint but I think it is fairly comprehensible. Basically I designed this fruiting chamber off some similar work I did with my buddy 7 years ago and wanted to run it past the minds on this board to see what you all think, and what could be improved. The idea here is that once I swap to my bulk sub (coco+verm) in a Sterilite 6qt. "shoebox" and it is fully inoculated I will place the box into the fruiting chamber (a larger Sterilite) and from there it should be pretty much automated until it's time to harvest. I'll have four of these fruiting chamber total to start, but there is one air pump and fogger for every two chambers, hence the drawing. Before you ask why the 4 chambers as opposed to one or two monotubs there are several reasons. One is space, this setup fits into my closet much nicer than the larger tubs. Second is quality, if there is an issue with one for any reason I can toss it and still have the others. Third is experimentation, this will allow me to try different subs at the same time on the same strains for a side-by-side comparison. Last is quantity, I can cultivate different stains at the same time or rotate them in a manner that allows for near constant harvesting if done properly.

The airpump and fogger/mister are hooked up to the same power supply, which will be kicked on and off either by a timer or by a hydrometer placed inside one of the chambers for FAE and humidity. This way I can either use a timer to kick on the automated FAE several times a day or set the hydrometer to something like 100% humidity which will kick on when it drops below that. Whether or not to go with a timer or a hydrometer is one thing I would like to answer here with your help. The fogger/mister water will likely have about a cap full of hydrogen peroxide just to help cut down on any possible contams. The air from the pump will be fed into the fogger/mister pot and will in turn feed the humidified air from there into the fruiting chambers. The 6qt. "shoebox" will be raised off the floor of the fruiting chamber, this should allow the CO2 to sink to the bottom of the chamber and be expelled through a one-way valve whenever the airpump/fogger/FAE system kicks on. 

So, thoughts? Critiques? Wanna tell me how stupid this is? Or is it brilliant? Kinda piecing it together from memory of when I helped my buddy as well as some modification from my own thoughts. His setup worked great so I know something like this is doable...... well?

Untitled.jpg

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mushmouth

Sorry, bud. But one of these per few months makes more boomers than I can stand. Maybe you're trying to grow a species other than cubes?

gp4.jpg.2b4583b0334188bb8062ca9d209e68c5.jpg

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Asura

Looks like a setup people used back in the day called a PMP (Poor mans pod). Way overkill for cubes. I've thought it might work for pan cyan, but I've never tried it.

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GoodGary
14 hours ago, mushmouth said:

Sorry, bud. But one of these per few months makes more boomers than I can stand. Maybe you're trying to grow a species other than cubes?

 

Well yes and no. I will be using this for cubes and other various species. A buddy of mine did something very similar to this a while back and it worked amazingly for cubes. In trying to re-create it I was just looking for pointers here on improving the design or what others might think. If you'd like I'll report back here with photos and updates as I try this.

14 hours ago, Asura said:

Looks like a setup people used back in the day called a PMP (Poor mans pod). Way overkill for cubes. I've thought it might work for pan cyan, but I've never tried it.

Pretty similar, yes. What makes it overkill? I mean, I acknowledge I am over engineering this and that is just fun for me... but you don't think an automated process is convenient and cool? Not to mention that yes, I will be using it for more than just cubes.

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Asura

It's not going to be as automated as you think. A shoebox that you don't have to mist until 1st flush is more automated than this will be. I am doing all of this on a little bit bigger of a scale. I have a fruiting room with a bucket fogger controlled by a humidity controller. Temp is controlled with a temp controller. I have pretty much constant FAE going in. All those controllers and whatnot? Forget it. I am still dicking with it all every day.

You can't just set your controller for the humidity you want and have things work out. You will most likely end up oversaturating your substrate if you do what you are describing in terms of the hydrodometer. If you want to press ahead, dial it all in before you need to fruit in there at least. After you build it, put a small dish in there. You want to get the highest humidity you need without any pooling water in the dish. Then it might be ready.

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GoodGary
17 hours ago, Asura said:

It's not going to be as automated as you think. A shoebox that you don't have to mist until 1st flush is more automated than this will be. I am doing all of this on a little bit bigger of a scale. I have a fruiting room with a bucket fogger controlled by a humidity controller. Temp is controlled with a temp controller. I have pretty much constant FAE going in. All those controllers and whatnot? Forget it. I am still dicking with it all every day.

You can't just set your controller for the humidity you want and have things work out. You will most likely end up oversaturating your substrate if you do what you are describing in terms of the hydrodometer. If you want to press ahead, dial it all in before you need to fruit in there at least. After you build it, put a small dish in there. You want to get the highest humidity you need without any pooling water in the dish. Then it might be ready.

 

Well, I started assembling everything last night. I'm making sure to take pictures as I go, so I can share the process if it works or not. Couple more things to silicone tonight and then I will start testing with the humidity. I'll put a small dish in the middle of the "shoebox" and start testing different options for kicking the FAE on and off. I'll likely start with just running it 24/7, I have a feeling this will over-saturate as you mentioned. After I confirm that I will try using a timer and having it kick on maybe 4 times a day. After that I will play it by ear. I'll use the hydrometer just to read the humidity for the time being, to ensure I can keep it high enough.

Just to clarify, I see in other fruiting chambers and expect to see in mine as well water condensation on the sides of the container. I expect this would cause SOME pooling water on any dish set in those fruiting chambers. So am I just trying to keep this to a minimum or no pooling at all? I was going to use 50/50 Coco + Verm as my bulk sub and casing layer, would there be a better bulk sub and casing layer for this type of fruiting chamber? I mean, if the bulk sub and casing layer I use don't retain moisture as well then I may be able to leave this FAE system running 24/7 and wouldn't have to worry about excessive moisture right? Any ideas with that?

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Asura

I mean you're going to have to figure that all out. That's why it's not really automated. You're going to have to spend time figuring out what to set your timers to for your particular environment. And then you will have to determine if it holds over time. And then when winter gets here, you'll probably need to adjust everything again. A lot of people new to growing do this stuff for whatever reason, so get it out of your system is what I say :)

Coir+verm is all you need. A casing layer for cubes is unnecessary. Just cover any exposed grains on top with substrate.

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MagicalCriminal

@Asurathe info you gave on casing is incomplete which could cause the loss of a tub, particularly if you are dialing in rh.  Cubes do not need casing IF the rh stays above 90%. If it drops below 90% it must be cased to maintain humidity.

I use casing like insurance. Though not needed, it helps assure healthy myc and gives a window of opportunity should rh fall for any reason. 

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GoodGary
14 hours ago, Asura said:

I mean you're going to have to figure that all out. That's why it's not really automated. You're going to have to spend time figuring out what to set your timers to for your particular environment. And then you will have to determine if it holds over time. And then when winter gets here, you'll probably need to adjust everything again. A lot of people new to growing do this stuff for whatever reason, so get it out of your system is what I say :)

Coir+verm is all you need. A casing layer for cubes is unnecessary. Just cover any exposed grains on top with substrate.

Thanks for your feedback. I'm prepared for winter with an automatic space heater if needed and the humidity in my area doesn't change all that much. I know I'm kinda new to this but remember from my original story I mentioned this was designed off some work I did with a buddy previously. I assisted him here and there for about a year, so far I have 10 rye jars almost 100% colonized with no contams and I was able to do that from memory. I know this fruiting chamber will work because this is the only method I ever saw him use and he produced  a LOT of cubie boys. More than we could run tests on for sure. Buuut alas I didn't help him build it or dial it in, so while I know it'll work well if done right I came here for pointers or that part of tweaking it juuuust right. Your idea of putting a dish in there and testing first is so simple yet I missed it, so thanks for that too. I'll be starting those tests tomorrow, wasn't able to finish building everything last night, went to a comedy show annnnd one or two beers too many meant bed instead. 

4 hours ago, MagicalCriminal said:

@Asurathe info you gave on casing is incomplete which could cause the loss of a tub, particularly if you are dialing in rh.  Cubes do not need casing IF the rh stays above 90%. If it drops below 90% it must be cased to maintain humidity.

I use casing like insurance. Though not needed, it helps assure healthy myc and gives a window of opportunity should rh fall for any reason. 

So in testing maybe I will try one with and without. I was thinking with this setup a casing layer may actually help in OVER-saturating which I want to avoid.. Then again I could have it kick on just a few times a day for short periods and a casing layer may help maintain in between.

If I'm using just coco+verm for my bulk sub, what would you recommend for a casing layer?

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Asura
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, MagicalCriminal said:

@Asurathe info you gave on casing is incomplete which could cause the loss of a tub, particularly if you are dialing in rh.  Cubes do not need casing IF the rh stays above 90%. If it drops below 90% it must be cased to maintain humidity.

I use casing like insurance. Though not needed, it helps assure healthy myc and gives a window of opportunity should rh fall for any reason. 

I use a casing layer myself, but they are 100% not necessary for cubes. I've done it before and I've seen it 1000's of times (documented literally daily, but somewhere else - not going to name another site).

In fact, I don't know many growers that would use one in a monotub, dubtub or shoebox style grow.

I advocate using a casing for beginners because it is a good crutch. It not only acts as a humidity barrier, like you've said (keeping RH high consistently across the surface), but it's also a good for efficiently transporting water and it protects the mycelium as well in situations where a new cultivator gets mist happy.

And I mean a real casing layer, not just more sub thrown on top. This will be an actual, distinct layer that is not readily consumed by the mycelium (see pic).

casing-profile.jpg

My casing recipe, FYI (about 4 full quarts worth)

280g peat
260g vermiculite
60g calcium carbonate (CaCO3)
0.6g calcium hydroxide (Ca(OH)2)
800g distilled water (dH20)

pH ~7.7

I pasteurize for at least an hour and give it a solid misting after it's applied

Edited by Asura
Left out pH
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GoodGary
1 hour ago, Asura said:

My casing recipe, FYI (about 4 full quarts worth)

280g peat
260g vermiculite
60g calcium carbonate (CaCO3)
0.6g calcium hydroxide (Ca(OH)2)
800g distilled water (dH20)

pH ~7.7

I pasteurize for at least an hour and give it a solid misting after it's applied

Thank you, I will probably try both. I like that your recipe is measured in grams, this works well for me. I already have peat moss and verm, I'll need to get the carbonate and hydroxide. Looks like I can order the carbonate as a bulk supplement, from a pet store for reptiles, or from oyster shell powder. The hydroxide looks available from amazon or home depot as either garden lime or as a food grade additive. Any recommendations there or will it really matter? I believe I remember my buddy using garden lime. 🤔

1 hour ago, Asura said:

And I mean a real casing layer, not just more sub thrown on top. This will be an actual, distinct layer that is not readily consumed by the mycelium (see pic).

Great pic by the way, thanks

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Asura

The calcium hydroxide can be considered optional here. A little goes a long way and it is easy to mess things up. But if you following this exact recipe, it will work. If you do get the calcium hydroxide mix it with the water before you add. Everything else should be mixed dry.

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GoodGary
28 minutes ago, Asura said:

The calcium hydroxide can be considered optional here. A little goes a long way and it is easy to mess things up. But if you following this exact recipe, it will work. If you do get the calcium hydroxide mix it with the water before you add. Everything else should be mixed dry.

Thanks. I will follow this exactly I really do appreciate it.

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MagicalCriminal

@Asura I didn't say you were wrong, I said you gave incomplete information. Kinda like following a recipe for a cake but when its time for the oven it doesn't go in because it wasn't in the recipe and I am a newb baker that has never baked a cake. Kind of an extreme example but full and accurate info helps prevent failure.

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Asura

Oh it's cool, Magical. I didn't even take it like you were telling me I was wrong or anything. Just talking myco talk, you know? I totally understood what you were getting at.

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GoodGary

Update:

Let my system run for several hours last night as I slept, maybe about 7 hours. The humidity looks really good actually. Fog/mist on the sides of the chambers consistently but no pooling in the center where the sub will be. The issues I am running into is water moving up the hose and into the fruiting chamber. The water droplets are not constant, but enough that there was significantly less water in the misting container the next morning. This is not ideal obviously, and right now seems to be the main problem to solve  before this is ready for a fruiting run. I was thinking of adding a check valve in the air line that leads to the fruiting chamber, right at the exit of the fogging chamber. This may stop the water, however I feel this will prevent as much humidity entering the fruiting chamber. I can't remember how my old friend prevented this from happening, so I gotta try and figure it out. Any suggestions?

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Skydoggy

Hi, could you tell me what you are using for an air pump?.  Also, is the fogger just one of those simple things you can find on Amazon for $10 or is it more sophisticated?

 

I'm looking forward to seeing some pic's

 

Thanks

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